I upgraded my Clean Republic Hill Topper electric bike kit battery from SLA to Lithium-ion (Sprinter) last winter (February 28, 2013). I have been using an SLA battery since I got my kit it in May 2010 and I believe I have exhausted its 400 recharge cycles after using it for 2 years (not everyday, though). The SLA still works but it now gives me only 20% distance of what it used to give back in May 2010.
I have used my new Sprinter Lithium-ion battery since February 28, 2013 and have only recharged it 25 times (so I should have 475 recharge cycles left). Unfortunately, my Sprinter stopped working last August 2013 so I sent it back to Clean Republic in North Dakota for inspection (it arrived September 12, I think). Upon inspection they saw that the regulator burned out (I got an email from Anthony on September 12). Clean Republic has repaired it as part of the 1-year warranty (I only had it for 6 months) and it has now been shipped back to me (it is on its way but I may wait for a week or so to actually get the shipment). It took me a week to get a response so I had to wait and follow-up in several channels (Google chat, Facebook, etc). You may look at the details of my communication with Clean Republic on this issue by visiting this link: http://www.electric-bike-kit-forum.com/extending-battery-life-t201.html#p2055. I will write a separate blog on my experience and observation of their customer service.
For this post, my topic is product comparison.
Another 5-minute conversion kit?
There are other electric bike conversion kits in the market but they are not as affordable as what Clean Republic offers. I recently discovered that a similar but apparently cheaper 5-minute electric bike conversion kit just hit the U.S. market. I do not know if this kit is better (no experience to base claims yet) but I tried to compare their specs below just to get some idea. The Utah-based company is called Love Energy Efficient Designs (LEED). It is a funny coincidence that while the name of the CEO of Clean Republic is Mike (Michael Shoppe) the one who started LEED is also named Mike (Merrell). LEED started selling their kits just this July 2013. You may check out their Facebook.LEED offers a 10-mile 1500 recharge-cycle Samsung Lithium-ion kit complete with an 8Fun front motor with complete wheel with quick release axle, controller, wires, and battery pack for only 449 USD plus shipping of 135 USD making the total cost 594 USD. If we add the expected Norway import duties of of about 150 - 200 USD a Norway importer would expect to shell out a total of 734 - 794 USD (or 4 352 - 4 705 NOK).
In comparison, Clean Republic sells a similar 10-mile 500 recharge-cycle Samsung Lithium-ion kit with an 8Fun front motor with complete wheel (without quick release axle), controller, wires, and battery pack for 499 USD plus shipping of 150 USD (based on what it costs in 2010) making the total cost 649 USD. If we add the expected Norway import duties of of about 150 - 200 USD a Norway importer would expect to shell out a total of 799 - 849 USD (or 4 730 - 5 438 NOK).
Based on the advertised specs and price, LEED seems to be on the lead but only time and customer experience would tell if LEED can deliver the promise.
Here is LEED's installation video. (Note: I think the tire should be recycled or kept for future use and not thrown away in the yard as shown on the video!)
How much is the cheapest electric bicycle in the local Norwegian market?
In Norway, a company called Biltema sells a full 28" electric bicycle for 1,182 USD (6 999 NOK).In comparison, the total cost for putting together a complete electric bicycle with a basic SLA Clean Republic Hill Topper electric bicycle conversion kit is 1,197 USD. The kit includes an 8Fun front motor attached to a complete 26" wheel, a controller, a on/off switch, attachment cables, and SLA battery. It costs 399 USD. In addition, shipping it to Norway from the US costs 150 USD plus import duties of 225 USD. That's 775 USD total for the conversion kit. If I add the cost of my existing bike (422 USD) then the total cost of the electric bicycle is 1,197 USD. That is 15 USD more expensive than the Biltema electric bicycle.
Since my May 2010 SLA battery exceeded it 400 recharge cycles after two years, I opted to get the Sprinter lithium upgrade which costs 300 USD plus 125 USD importation taxes and customs fees. That is 425 USD total. But since I had to send back the Sprinter to Clean Republic when it broke in August, I had to shell out an additional 50 USD for return shipping, making the total cost for my lithium battery upgrade to 475 USD. Add that to 1,197 USD will give us 1,672 USD. That makes my electric bicycle 490 USD more expensive than the cheapest Biltema electric bicycle.
By just looking at the numbers it may seem that the Biltema e-bike is cheaper. Well, not necessarily. The Biltema bicycle is known to be not top of the line so paying for less on the bike itself is not the way to go if you want something more durable. That is also the conclusion of one review of this electric bike (in Norwegian).
Another affordable alternative is the Northern Lights electric bicycle sold by elsykkel.no. Their 26" electric bicycle costs 1,629 USD (9650 NOK including shipping). The included battery gives 700 recharge cycles and costs 43 USD less than what I have paid in total for my electric bike. But one has to shell out the 1,629 USD immediately compared to investing in installments in 3 years as I did.
Still another cheaper full electric bike is the Alprace folding bicycle sold by Coop Obs (similar to the one pictured below).
This one costs 844 USD (4999 NOK), so far the cheapest I have seen in Norway. It uses a 8Fun rear motor and a frog type Lithium ion battery attached to the rear. The included lithium ion battery is good for 600 recharge cycles.
Even if the 3 other alternatives might cost less, I would still go with Clean Republic Hill Topper kits (or perhaps the equivalent LEED kit that I have not yet tested) for the reason that I will explain in what follows.
Advantages versus disadvantages
The advantage of getting an 8Fun motor driven conversion kits like Clean Republic's Hill Topper and LEED's 5-minute kits is its portability. You can attach it to any existing (durable) bike that has steel forks (not aluminum). You also don't have to shell out a large amount of money immediately. In my case my initial investment is decent BikeForce 26-inch bike which costs 422 USD to which I added a basic 8Fun motor-driven electric conversion kit (775 USD including importation costs) then finally the lithium battery upgrade (475 USD). If we divide the total cost of 1,672 USD to 38 months, I have spent 44 USD per month as of September 2013 from May 2010. The computed monthly investment will go down as long as the battery lasts. If I use it everyday to go to work (5 days a week) and assuming it will last the 475 recharge cycles remaining since I used it, then I should be able to use it until December 13, 2015, that is 27 months more for a total of 65 months spreading my monthly investment to 26 USD per month.Assemble your own
The cheapest way to get an e-bike is to assemble your own kit. If you have a 24V 8Fun brushless motor, a battery pack w/controller & matching charger, and a cable switch then you can put together your own e-bike conversion kit to use or to sell (if you develop it through Kickstarter). Here is a recipe for assembling your own 8-mile SLA battery pack for your 24V 8Fun motor-driven conversion kit.1. You need to buy 2 SLA 12V batteries
or an equivalent Dakota 12V Lithium-ion battery sold by Clean Republic:
2. You then need to buy a controller from Clean Republic. They sell it for 49 USD each.
4. Some tape and soldering iron is needed to assemble these parts.
5. A waterproof nylon bag can be recycled from old bag thrown away or get one from FRETEX.
You need to get a HENGGUANG POWER Model HG6S240160 charger with output rating 24V=1.6A to charge your battery pack.
A cable set to attach your battery pack to the brushless motor is needed. You can buy one from LEED or Clean Republic.
And lastly, you need a front wheel 24V 8Fun brushless motor. You can buy just the motor and assemble your own wheel or you can buy a complete wheel with motor either from Clean Republic or LEED.
Conversion kit sellers' customer service: what might happen
The downside of buying a complete conversion kit, perhaps, is the added cost of importing from the U.S. (25 % VAT and customs fees) and getting less (if not long distance) customer support. Clean Republic started out as a small company so I enjoyed dealing with them in 2010. The CEO himself attends to customer communications back then and he replies immediately. But the one in charge of shipping tends to make mistakes, though. Three times in my case. Maybe it was just me but the first time they made a mistake was sending my order using a cheaper shipping mode than what I paid for back in 2010 (I paid 265 USD for USPS Global Express Guaranteed but my order was shipped through USPS Express Mail International costing only 150 USD). They refunded the mistaken overcharge of 111.75 USD after I alerted them on this and they apologised for the mistake but I had to pay more for the 25 % VAT plus duties (almost 50% of the total cost including shipping) of the overcharged cost (not the net after the mistake refund). The second mistake happened when I paid online for a more expensive USPS shipping but my order was sent via the cheaper UPS shipping. Again they apologised for this mistake and refunded accordingly. The third mistake was when I paid 90 USD for shipping of my Sprinter upgrade to Norway but when I got the invoice that came with the package it showed that only 59.95 USD was actually paid for the USPS shipping. There seems to be a pattern here and I wonder if other customers check their invoices as I do. I emailed Mike Shoppe about the third mistake on March 5, 2013 but this time, unfortunately, I never got a reply until now, almost 7 months have passed. This is just 30 USD but I think it is unwise to risk customer satisfaction for just that amount. Some improvements must be made to their online order and shipping procedure to make sure that the shipping that customers pay for is what they get when orders are shipped. Recently, I have observed that some customers (including myself), at least had to wait longer (one week in my case) and will have to be persistent (and should have the extra time) in trying to get a response from them, if one gets any response at all! My March 5 email query, for example, remain unanswered up to this day and I only follow up the most important, like 'when should I expect to get my repaired battery back?'. To be fair, customer support seems to be improving again with a new guy (Beau Morton) helping out. Beau answers all my email promptly and has somehow got the shipping of my repaired Sprinter going! But they should do something out their Forum which has now become inactive. My suggestion is to direct all forum visitors to their more active Facebook page. I will write a separate review about Clean Republic's customer service later.
I hope you find this electric bike conversion comparison useful.
NOTE: More posts on e-bike conversion projects are available here.
Hi - have you ever opened the motor on the hill topper? I got one used, and it goes but doesn't pull very well. The bike will pull itself forward if the rider is just standing beside, holding it, but not if actually on the bike.
ReplyDeleteSo I've tried a 24V DC 1A power where the batteries would connect, and its still gutless.
A spring balance on a spoke measures up to 4~5 kilograms of "pull"
The wiring all checks okay, so the only two bits left are the controller box and the motor.
Any suggestions?
Thanks, criggie, I do not have experience in opening the 8Fun motor of the Hill Topper kit so I cannot give you any suggestion here.
DeleteI have not studied the inner workings of the kit yet. Maybe I will do that in the future for fun and if I have time. My intention in this particular post is to compare prices and specs to inform prospective buyers on what to expect.
I see that your posts on the Clean Republic Forum is not getting any reply from any of the admin and tech people. I am wondering why that is. It was way much better on the same Forum before in 2010. If you check the posts around that time you will see that almost all customer questions get answered including my question about disc brakes. Try sending an email to Mike or to Beau, maybe they can help you with your technical questions.
Thanks to your lead I've made excellent progress. Full report is at http://www.electric-bike-kit-forum.com/post2249.html
DeleteShort version - 36 volts, 36 AH, and SLA batteries works nicely, albeit heavy.
Keep up the good work!
Interesting report. This is the second 36V experiment I have seen. There was another one who tried a 10AH Li-FePO4 36V battery using the HT controller. This is interesting because the rating indicated in the HT controller is 24V when it has been tested that 36V also works. Note that the controller used for the SLA battery pack is exactly the same controller used in Clean Republic's Li-ion battery packs. I know because I have both SLA and Li-ion battery packs from Clean Republic. In fact, I also have another Li-ion pack from another company, LEED, which also uses exactly the same kind of controller as CR has for its SLA pack.
DeleteBy the way, the report about the other 36V experiment I mentioned can be found here: http://jhlui1.wordpress.com/2012/01/20/ping-battery-replacement-with-clean-republic-e-bike-motor-and-controller/
DeleteI took the bike on a road trip from San Francisco to San Luis Obispo , it was an amazing ride. Bike can do 30 to 40 miles a day, thats hard riding in Big Sur on 2 batteries. electric bikes nz
ReplyDeleteCool rides. The link you gave shows cool electric bikes too although they are a bit pricey. Did you use any of those bikes?
DeleteThose bikes are actually fairly cheap for round here. Though I do admire the optimisim someone has to claim "Driving range up to 90 km" on a 12AH battery.
DeleteThank you malik. I hope you find the information useful.
ReplyDeleteHi This is very interesting topic. I have recently purchased a Leed kit, and haven't had the overheating issue so far, but I do pedal during hill climbs, and most of the hills are not to steep.
ReplyDeleteI love the fact these kits are easy to install, but very proprietary. I noticed the motor only had 3 pins (two for power, and one for signal, I think). I am looking to convert another ebike, but do you happen to know where i can find similar toggle button on-off motors. I would prefer not to take the throttle route.
Thank you, and keep up the great work. I found your blog extremely helpful with all the images and all.
Hi Sonnet, Sorry I missed your post (and question) back in August. I hope you got the information you were looking for despite my failure to answer.
DeleteAnyway, in case you or others will still need to know what the options are, push button on-off switches can be bought from Clean Republic and LEED. Both have the same product. I know because I have bought these from them. I buy from LEED because getting discounts as an old customer is possible.
I really like this post and its information is really very nice and useful for me.
ReplyDeletelithium battery 36v 20ah
ebike accu
ebike battery
Electric Bicycle Online is compact in size, easy to keep easily placed in elevators, offices, trunk and so on to prevent theft.
ReplyDeleteElectric Bicycle VS Electric Scooter When referring to Electric Vehicles, Electric Bicycles and Electric Scooters can come into people's mind. Truly, both of these kinds of electric vehicles are popular among people nowadays because electric vehicles have many benefits, like environmentally friendly, cost-effective, safe and many more. But some people may be hesitant when they will need to select between two kinds.
ReplyDelete